411 Political Feedback - Should a Mosque and Islamic Cultural Center Be Built at or Near Ground Zero? Posted by Mark Radulich on 08.04.2010
And what's with the one-sided sensitivity?
The Cordoba Project plans to construct a 13-story mosque and community center about 2 blocks from where the Twin Towers once stood.
Below is my opinion if you are interested in reading it otherwise let's hear from you in the comments section.
I'm not in favor of this idea. I don't like to let emotions rule my political judgment but the events of 9/11 still sting. I was close to the World Trade Center when it happened and I saw the first tower explode from across the East River in Downtown Brooklyn. I don't think all Muslims are terrorists and I certainly have no objections to any mosque or cultural center being built almost anywhere in America but this particular project lacks decency and common sense in my humble opinion. Regardless of the intentions "to build bridges of understanding" it will be interpreted by many as an affront and an insult to those who died by terrorist hands, as it should be. Some even interpret the intention of building a mosque at Ground Zero as a sign of conquest by the Muslims. Even if that idea is a tad bellicose I would agree that a little sensitivity is in order here and that the mosque should be built elsewhere (Lord knows there's vacant property all over New York City).
It is in fact sensitivity that lies at the heart of this issue and probably the thing that annoys me the most. When a Muslim terrorist attempted to set off a bomb in Times Square Mayor Bloomberg ventured that the assailant was probably a Tea Party member who was mad at the passage of Obamacare. Now either he's a moron or he was attempting to be sensitive to Muslims to the point of sounding like a complete jackass. His desire to unapologetically stand behind building this mosque smacks of political correctness as if he's tripping over himself to show the Muslim world how sensitive he is to their plight. Why? The really sarcastic part of me feels like he is this way because he's afraid if he makes a Muslim mad they might blow something up. It's like the T-shirt Brian Pillman used to wear, "Don't Annoy the Crazy Person." Why is he contributing to the infantilization of Muslim people? They are not a special group who should be protected from criticism. They are just as worthy of criticism and protest as every other group in this country. It is beyond the pale that if you disagree with anyone besides WASP's you are seen as insensitive and probably a racist. One of the comments recently posted here on 411 was something like the only groups you can make fun of today are fat people and cops; blunt but poignant.
I assume the real reason Bloomberg is backing the Cordoba Project is precisely because he really is sensitive to the feelings of Muslims and that's not out of fear. That would be fine except he should not be sensitive to one group to the exclusion of all other groups or one group entirely. He's the Mayor of New York not the Mayor of New York Liberals or the Mayor of Everyone in New York except Conservatives. He should have been a fair arbiter between all parties and not taken a side. The terrorists who attacked this country (including other Muslims) did so in the name of Allah with the intention of at least driving US presence out of the Middle East. Based on that alone, it is vulgar and ghastly to build a mosque at Ground Zero in my opinion. Anywhere else in NY would have been fine but this is insensitive to at least those who lived there and lost loved ones in the attack. Those who oppose the building of a mosque at Ground Zero should be afforded the courtesy of Bloomberg's sensitivity too. The last time I checked, non-Muslim American opinions counted as well as Muslim Americans.
No way in hell should they construct such an eyesore in that location. When they do, I hope that some fringe right Christian separatist blows the fuckin thing up. This IS a religious war afterall.
Posted By: Guest#0121 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:52 AM
It is really sad that this is even an issue. All religions should be accepted, especially in this country. MUSLIMS did not attack anyone on 9/11. A small group of EXTREMISTS who were acting far outside the beliefs of 99.9% of all Muslims attacked the USA. Leave the 99.9% alone.
Posted By: A Catholic (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 01:32 AM
No. It's bullshit. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
You're telling me that television shows and cartoon artist can't draw Mohammed- but these assholes can build a Mosque on Ground Zero?!
We have become neutered piss ants.
Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 03:05 AM
This editorial should be one sentence long. "I feel emotions that tell me there shouldn't be a mosque there, and so do a lot of people, and that should be taken into consideration." There, done.
I mean, it's not an argument, and it's not fair, and it shouldn't be a major thing going into the decision, but at least it's something. It's honest and it's true.
The rest of the editorial, with the hilariously overwrought self-victimization? That is not something. It's, in fact, totally nothing. It's whining about people in power not validating your personal feelings, and that's not their job. It's nothing.
Posted By: karp (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 03:29 AM
"The terrorists who attacked this country (including other Muslims) did so in the name of Allah with the intention of at least driving US presence out of the Middle East."
Ah...yeah when they attack us we had no presence in the Middle East, at least military wise.
"Based on that alone, it is vulgar and ghastly to build a mosque at Ground Zero in my opinion."
It's not on the site of Ground Zero for God's sake. It clearly says 2 blocks away...2 NY blocks (which are quite large) for that matter. The term "ground zero" describes the location where the disaster occurred. Two blocks away is not considered ground zero. They have every right to build to mosque in that location. This coming from a Christian.
Posted By: Denk (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 04:04 AM
"No way in hell should they construct such an eyesore in that location. When they do, I hope that some fringe right Christian separatist blows the fuckin thing up. This IS a religious war afterall"
Are you fucking serious??? Welcome to America, now stop being Mulsim.. I love how the righties scream about "THE WAR ON CHRISTMAS" and then go ahead and condone what is nothing more than standard bigotry. You adn this whole aricle are as full of shit as the space between your ears.
Posted By: Eric (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 06:41 AM
Did you even research the location? That its not even visible to the actual ground zero? Is a mile away okay? 2 miles? How freaking silly.
Congrats to you. Your response encourages opinions like guest0121. Truly living up to american ideals.
Posted By: Captain Obvious (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 06:52 AM
For a country founded on terrorism you americans seem a bit uppity about september 11 2001, that being said aside from some disillusioned fuckwits its a safe bet to say that some innocent muslims died in these attacks, aren't the muslim community allowed to mourn there dead just like everyone else, you people need to grow up, these people are trying to come together in peace and understanding trying to repair rifts created by completely unrelated parties and your telling them to get f'd, the only real difference between you and a muslim person is that their women wear a hijab and they're more tolerent than americans
Posted By: turoklobster (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 07:23 AM
Thanks guest21 for revealing why we will never win this war and lowering yourself down to be a terrorist. I don't like the idea and on some level its a slap in the face. Also, I think these people are asking for trouble in a city where its really easy to find trouble. At the same time, we get pissy when other countries block churchs from being built in their part of the world, so it would be hypocritical for us to do the same.
I think the people behind this should really think about it before they do anything. Making this political has also lead to the worse time of politics, fear. Fear of a culture we know nothing about and why we continue to lose the war in the Middle East. The more we learn, the more we can relate to them and maybe squeek out a victory or at least a compromise. Declaring war every time something like this comes up, is a receipt for disaster. Bloomberg is right when he told Palin to mind her business. It amazes me the GOP is all for state and local rights, but when something like they don't like happens, they want the Feds to intervene. Also, Palin doesn't have any real government power, so why are people listening to her. She has become this quasi-cult leader for the tea baggers. Who barkes everytime something a little controversial comes up. Might be time someone puts a muzzler on her since most of her endorsements have failed in the primaries anyway and the mid-terms don't look great either for the Tea Party candidates either. As for the topic at hand, I don't like it, but its part of living in a free society, so deal with it America.
Posted By: YOU\\\\\\\'RE NEW GOD (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 08:16 AM
I think that the idea could be revolutionary. Why don't they build mosque's in any potential terrorist site. This would surely prevent any attack because it is surely against their religion to bomb/attack a mosque?
Posted By: scouser (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 09:16 AM
Why not? You yanks have never been sensitive about building McDonalds or child-labour using factories in foreign lands after you've spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.
Me(and the rest of the world)thinks the lady doth protest too much.
Posted By: Guest#7134 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 09:50 AM
Sure. And while we are at it, let's go ahead and build a memorial at Pearl Harbor to honor all the Japanese kamikaze pilots who lost their lives in the attack.
Seriously. This is stupid. It brings to mind an interview I watched recently with an ex-Islamic extremist: He said the terrorists goal is to necessarly bring about change through violent attacks, but rather change the United States by infiltrating their educational and political structure.
Basically, it's the whole frog-not-realizing-he's-slowly-boiling-to-death scenario.
Sounds like the plan is working thus far.
Posted By: Wesgr81 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 10:13 AM
Can it be built? Of course. Should it? Nah, plenty of idiots will start getting mad, forgetting that Muslims also lives in the WTC.
How about no religous places in that area...no harm, no foul.
Posted By: Hoodoo91 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 10:54 AM
"Why is he contributing to the infantilization of Muslim people? They are not a special group who should be protected from criticism. They are just as worthy of criticism and protest as every other group in this country."
Agreed. There are no special groups that need coddling in clear violation of the law and basic property rights. The space in question is privately owned, right? So how is its use subject to a vote? How is this a matter of public debate at all?
I'll even play along with some people's worst instincts. Suppose this mosque will either be:
A) a base for terrorists to plan their next attack, or
B) a place when moderate Muslims gather to observe their faith
If possibility A is true, terrorists will be congregating at a single identified location, making it easier for the Feds to track and monitor them. If B is true, well resistance to that would be plain old bigotry.
I have never understood the concept "something bad happened here, so we must ensure that time freezes in the place where it happened and re-live the tragedy every time we pass by from now to forever". Frankly it strikes me as superstitious nonsense. Not only is the concept irrational to me, it in no way, shape or form trumps basic property rights.
This is not a matter of public debate, it is a demonstration that people allow themselves to get worked up over intangible things that have no effect on their actual lives while ignoring real issues. If this mosque were built quietly, you would have never known about it and it would never have any effect on you whatsoever.
Stop doing politician's jobs for them by getting worked up over non-issues that allow them to grandstand and pretend they make any meaningful impact on our behalf. They want a chance to make symbolic gestures so they seem relevant, even as they demonstrate a complete lack of competence on every major issue. It's pathetic that the masses fall for it every single time.
Why is freedom always contingent upon your gut reaction to something? How does it not sink in that a society where public sentiment trumps the rule of law is no different than the very religious theocracies you're so scared of?
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on August 04, 2010 at 11:06 AM
No way in hell should they construct such an eyesore in that location. When they do, I hope that some fringe right Christian separatist blows the fuckin thing up. This IS a religious war afterall.
Posted By: Guest#0121 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:52 AM
Dear sir, your anger is uneccessary here, I am a muslim myself and I believe the mosque should not be built in this location due to the senstiveness but why so much anger and harsh words we are all humans first, and not all muslims are terrorists. Are you saying christians have not done wrong or for that matter any other religions? Let us unite and stop this hatred for one another
Posted By: Ahm (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 11:29 AM
It is really sad that this is even an issue. All religions should be accepted, especially in this country. MUSLIMS did not attack anyone on 9/11. A small group of EXTREMISTS who were acting far outside the beliefs of 99.9% of all Muslims attacked the USA. Leave the 99.9% alone.
Posted By: A Catholic (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 01:32 AM
No. Muslims attacked America on 9/11. Dig deep enough and you'll find lines in their Holy Book that instruct them to attack us, just as the Bible has lines in it that direct Christians to attack non-believers.
Posted By: Guest#3586 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:20 PM
99.9 percent huh?
I don't believe that but let's say your right. With a billion muslims on the palnet, that would leave a million freaks.
This Imam leading the charge sounds like that 0.1 percent of assholes out there. Some facts about this human turd:
Believes America should be sharia compliant.......that should make feminists happy.
Wrote a book in Malaysia that was titled something to the affect of...a call to prayer from the rubble of ground zero. CLASSY
Believes Hamas is not a terror organization.
Look this turd up yourself.
I was not aware that there was a shortage of mosque in New York.
Look at the cover of Time magazine....there is your religion of peace. Carving up a girls face who didn't want to be a slave anymore. How tolerant.
Lastly, WHERE is the money coming from to build this thing?
Posted By: John (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:34 PM
No Mosque on ground zero. Freedom of religion is great and all, but putting a mosque on the place extremists blew up in the name of Allah, regardless of the fact that they do not represent mainline islam, is letting the terrorists win.
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 01:01 PM
I'm not totally sure what to think about this, but I would like to point out that generalizing Muslims as terrorists is almost as bad as saying that all Catholic priests are child molesters. Every group has couple bad eggs, to put it lightly...
Posted By: Guest#5346 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 01:41 PM
I'm a New Yorker. I don't care if they build it or not. It doesn't affect me.
Posted By: BillZilla (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 02:09 PM
How can those who oppose this because of the ludicrous idea that Osama and Islam attacked us, Not be obviously politically incorrect.
Posted By: Douglas (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 02:30 PM
Muslims are no fan of the homosexual community so I am expecting Jason Douglas to come out strong against the religion of peace with a 4 part article about how intollerant they are.
Holding my breath
Posted By: John (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 02:37 PM
Should not build it there. That's just begging for trouble. Insensitive to those who were killed, guaranteed to be vandalized--and there's just no need to put one there.
I heard a radio host make what I found to be a pretty good point too. Now, in no way do I think all muslims are terrorists. But Muslims do need to be more vocally angry at the extremists. You hear the muslim majority going "they're a fringe group, we aren't like that." But you don't hear the muslim majority speaking out loudly against all those that bastardize their religion. They should be pissed off that the extremists try and claim that they are doing what they're doing for Allah. Muslim community should be so vocally against the fringe groups instead of dismissive of them.
Posted By: Commie (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 03:05 PM
Build a mosque anywhere you want, but can you not understand, at least a little bit, why people are upset? It amazes me that supporters of this are screaming about "sensitivity", but they don't expect Muslims to have any sensitivity toward us? This is in very bad taste, at best, disgraceful and sickening at worst.
Posted By: Guest#4411 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 04:22 PM
Should not build it there. That's just begging for trouble. Insensitive to those who were killed, guaranteed to be vandalized--and there's just no need to put one there.
I heard a radio host make what I found to be a pretty good point too. Now, in no way do I think all muslims are terrorists. But Muslims do need to be more vocally angry at the extremists. You hear the muslim majority going "they're a fringe group, we aren't like that." But you don't hear the muslim majority speaking out loudly against all those that bastardize their religion. They should be pissed off that the extremists try and claim that they are doing what they're doing for Allah. Muslim community should be so vocally against the fringe groups instead of dismissive of them.
Posted By: Commie (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 03:05 PM
Why should they have to come out from the top of the mountain and have to say that? Whenever someone does every member of that religion have to come out and apologize for it?
We had people killing abortion doctors for example in the name of god but I sure (as a christian) didn't feel the need to apologize to anyone for it, if anyone knows the faith they now they guy was a nutjob. Why does the same not apply for Muslims?
Posted By: james (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 05:19 PM
Dear sir, your anger is uneccessary here, I am a muslim myself and I believe the mosque should not be built in this location due to the senstiveness but why so much anger and harsh words we are all humans first, and not all muslims are terrorists. Are you saying christians have not done wrong or for that matter any other religions? Let us unite and stop this hatred for one another
Posted By: Ahm (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 11:29 AM
Yes Christians have done wrong but entire societies havent bent over to to take a Christian dick up the arse like they have for Muslims. I live in England and our entire heritage is being eradicted in case it offends Muslims. Kids arent allowed to celebrate Christmas in some schools for fucks sake! We wouldnt want to offend the Muslim kids would we but fuck all the Chrsitians. You have to understand why people group all Muslims together. Its not so much being anti the religion but anti the effects it is having on our society.
Posted By: Carl Amari (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 05:45 PM
every religion has blood on its hand. Be it christian, muslim, hindu, judiasm or other.
I worked not 12 blocks away from the trade center and had a front row street to that disaster. i nearly lost family members down there.
There is no way a religous building should not be built near that site. They have every right to build and allow there people to congregat there.
I hate these political fuck heads pandering to there constituants saying this is a disgrace or an afront to the victims..fuck those lying basterds like Lazio (out for his own Albany agenda). Fuck the cable networks that want to pander to middle america. its a waste land of uneducated idots who voted christian heavy for George bush the 2nd time. this country was made for all. "we the people" means all teh people. all the victims.
I had a lot of anger that day and for a long time after. My city was changed. I am not muslim but am of a similar skin tone.i had to be afraid to walk to work or anywhere in my city for a few days. people would say i didnt belong or that i should go home. This is my home and i have a right to be here just like the muslims who did not have one thing to do with this.
Posted By: Big Dirty (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 05:56 PM
Why shouldn't the Muslims have their victory mosque? Nobody's ever stopped them from building in the other areas where they've killed and maimed. Why should America be any different?
Posted By: Guest#3078 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 06:24 PM
I wonder if we would be having this same conversation if it was revealed that Timothy McVeigh was a Christian and someone wanted to build a church near the site of the Oklahoma bombing. Somehow I get the feeling that the word "insensitivity" wouldn't be used at all.
Posted By: Ray Church (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 07:41 PM
america: the home of religious freedom. excuse me, religious christian freedom.
Posted By: jd (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 08:34 PM
What a world this would be if religion didn't exist...
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:18 PM
Marxism at its finest.
Posted By: Guest#1361 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 07:59 PM
What an idiot you must be Guest#1361. So because someone is against religion they must be Marxist? That's like when people find out I'm not Christian or Jewish (I can't bee Muslim because I'm white, see) they assume I'm an atheist-which I'm not.
The Abrahamic religions have done waaaaaaay more harm than good to this world.
Up with reason, down with superstitions!
Posted By: Guest#8224 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 09:06 PM
So, the people who committed the 9/11 attack werent Muslim? Really? That is interesting.
I wonder what convinced them to fly a plane into a building, killing themselves in the process?
Could it have been that they were taught from childhood that there is a giant man in the sky, and if you dont obey his orders, you'll burn for all eternity in a lake of fire?
So then, if not Muslim, what were they? Christian? Jewish?
It doesnt really matter, most all religions are the same in this regard. Obey or die.
The ONLY reason Americans arent behaving this way is because the power of religion has been sufficiently eroded by science and progressivism.
Religion IS the problem.
Sooner or later, technology will advance to the point that a biological or nuclear war will eradicate humanity.
But thats ok, you can all pretend that there is a giant man in the sky. Base your morality on books that are over a thousand years old.
Just dont pretend that it isnt going to be the end of us all.
Posted By: Guest#8259 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 11:06 PM
So, the people who committed the 9/11 attack werent Muslim? Really? That is interesting.
Posted By: Guest#8259 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 11:06 PM
The 9/11 hijackers were Muslims in the same way the Ku Klux Klan were Christians. If you say that the first are representative of Muslims as a whole, then you should also argue that the KKK are representative of Christians as a whole.
Yes, there are insane fanatics in all religions (in the same way there are insane fanatics with all modes of thought, just look at what the Cult of Reason did to reason).
If you're going to judge an entire community on the extremes of that religion, and control their place in the mourning of 9/11 based upon those beliefs, you really do need to take a long hard look at your motivations.
As a side note: The building that was destroyed during 9/11 was the WORLD Trade Center. Do you really think that the only Muslims killed on that day were the 19 hijackers?
Posted By: Ray Church (Guest) on August 05, 2010 at 06:10 AM
What a world this would be if religion didn't exist...
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 12:18 PM
Marxism at its finest.
Posted By: Guest#1361 (Guest) on August 04, 2010 at 07:59 PM
Sure, if it helps you sleep better at night, call me a Marxist. Most of the bad shit that has gone down on this planet is due to some crazy human's obsessive devotion to one god or another.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on August 05, 2010 at 04:52 PM
You either have no grasp of the modern world whatsoever or you chose long ago to abandon truth for your own egoic view of the world. You really want to compare extremist Christian bombings/terrorism to extremist Muslim bombings/terrorism? You really want to go down that route, and have the shameless ignorance to call ME biased? You are making yourself look like a fool to even argue this point. There IS no argument. Christian extremism is a cup of water in the underground swimming pool that is Islamic extremism. While I ask the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, you take the rest of your lifetime to ask the DAILY victims of Muslim extremism in the middle East all the way through the West.
And to those who say religion is the sole problem, meet my friends Stalin and Mao.
Posted By: C (Guest) on August 05, 2010 at 08:54 AM
I think you need to study up on Christian terrorism.
In terms of terrorist attacks on US soil they may not have had a large, single successful attack like Al Qaeda did, but they have had numerous smaller, successful terrorist attacks.
Islamic Terrorists have had three successful attacks on US soil, 9/11, the previous world trade bombing and, debatably, the Fort Hood shooting. We could add attacks on US army bases and embassies, but just sticking to attacks on US soil for now. 3, and I'm being charitable.
The KKK ran a reign of terror in the South for over 100 years. The number of victims is no doubt larger than the number of victims of 9/11.
The Army of God and similar extreme anti abortion groups have lead to the shootings of at least 10 people over the last two decades, but if we include the acts of Dr Bruce Ivins, the man accused of sending anthrax coated letters to Democratic Senators in 2001 (you know, the act that was blamed on Muslim terrorists) you can add in another 5 murders.
Posted By: Guest#3290 (Guest) on August 05, 2010 at 07:11 PM
Should they be able to build it? Yes.
Should they build it? Hell no! have some common sense, your just trying to piss people off.
Posted By: Post (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 12:47 PM
Westmoreland Cultural Trust will use grant money to improve or replace stage rigging, dressing rooms, the roof and other features at the Palace Theatre in downtown Greensburg.
The trust is scheduled to open bids for the estimated $1 million to $1.2 million project at 2 p.m. Aug. 18.
"Most of these are necessary to keep the integrity of the facility," said Mike Langer, trust president.
The trust owns and operates the theater, which opened in 1926.
Some of the work has begun.
In December, Secoa of Champlin, Minn., began replacing the steel stage rigging, which supports the main curtain, lighting and sound system. The company's bid was $225,000, and the work should be finished in a few weeks, Langer said.
He explained the rigging needed to be replaced for safety and performance reasons.
"It was starting to fail and became a little bit of a problem," Langer said.
In some cases, shows that were being considered were nixed because of demands that would have been put on the rigging, he said.
The theater is closed this month to allow the rigging work to be completed.
Other parts of the project include roof work, revamped dressing rooms, plumbing and electrical updates. Plastering and painting also are scheduled, and tattered or torn seats will be replaced.
Langer said grants will cover the full cost of the renovations. He declined to give the source of the grant money.
"It allows us to do the renovations and keep it to code and have the look of The Palace," Langer said.
The Richard King Mellon Foundation is contributing $500,000 in 2010 toward the work, according to the foundation's website.
Overall, this phase of the project is slated to be done in 12 to 18 months, Langer said.
Other work is planned for the future and will require local fundraising, he added.
The 1,369-seat theater attracts about 60,000 people yearly.
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